Narek Karapetyan, Robert Amsterdam by Carlson Tucker: What was it for? -1/2

Excerpts from two and a half minutes of Samuel (Samvel) Karapetyan’s nephew Narek Karapetyan's interview by Carlson Tucker, on his show has gone viral on the Armenian media. The whole interview was 1 hour and 21 minutes long and consisted of two parts. The first 30 minutes was devoted to Narek Karapetyan,  and the 90 minutes to their lawyer Robert Amsterdam. I watched the interview and wondered, what was it for? I have attached Narek Karapetyan's interview transcript in its entirety below, and highlighted the main points noted on the transcription and posted them too. Interested readers may decipher the purpose of this interview and form their opinion. Vaհe H Apelian.

The main points of Narek Karapetyan’s interview:

THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE: A RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION

CHRISTIAN MARTYRS, NOT JUST ETHNIC VICTIMS

THE FIRST CHRISTIAN NATION

THE WAR WITH AZERBAIJAN

ISRAEL’S ROLE IN THE CONFLICT

ATTACKS ON THE ARMENIAN CHURCH

ARCHBISHOPS IMPRISONED

THE PRIME MINISTER’S ANTI-CHRISTIAN AGENDA

WHO’S BEHIND THE ANTI-CHRISTIAN PUSH?

CONTROLLING HISTORY TO CONTROL THE FUTURE

The transcription of the interview is posted below.

THE ARMENIAN GENOCIDE: A RELIGIOUS PERSECUTION

TUCKER CARLSON: Thanks so much for doing this. Armenia is famous, to the extent it’s famous. Armenians are famous for being successful in business and quite cohesive as a community and very sincerely Christian observant. But probably they’re most famous for being exterminated by the Ottoman Turks at the end of the First World War, the Armenian genocide.

 

And I think most people don’t fully appreciate the extent to which that was religious persecution. That was a religious genocide and they were murdered because they were Christians. Tell us how we know that.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah. At the end of the rule of Ottoman Empire after Balkan wars, Ottoman Turks saw that some Balkan countries like Bulgaria and part of Greece became independent and the Christian countries in Balkans became independent after that. They felt some big risk in Christian population of Ottoman Empire like Armenians. Pontus Greeks became independent and they started to persecute the Christian population of Ottoman Empire or to convert them to Islam.

 

How it went on: when the war started between Entente and Ottoman Empire, Germany and Austria-Hungary, the Ottoman army came to all villages of Armenians in Ottoman Empire and asked two questions, just the villagers or the people who lived in towns. The first question was, “Will you convert to Islam?” Like 98% of the population, Armenian population of Ottoman Empire, denied.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Said no.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Said no. And the second question is, if you don’t convert to Islam, you will go from here to Desert of Deir ez-Zor. It’s like 800 kilometers, 600 kilometers from Armenian Highlands. And all the men were killed and all the women were taken with children to Desert of Deir ez-Zor.

 

And we have lost the 70% of the population of our nation because everyone, one and a half million people, said no to converting to other religion.

 

We want everyone to know about this story, not just about the dark side of the history. It has a bright message too, that Christians in the 20th century were very, they went in a way of Christ and they were sacrificed.

And we hope they all, this sacrifice will bring the Christians of our days to more faith to that what we have, the biggest and most humanistic religion that we accept and we must live with it.

 

CHRISTIAN MARTYRS, NOT JUST ETHNIC VICTIMS

TUCKER CARLSON: So I did not understand until we just had breakfast that the victims of the Armenian genocide, who’ve been talked about a lot, there’s been a debate in the Congress for many years whether we can call it a genocide, whether that’s somehow trademarked, but it was a genocide. But I didn’t understand that they were Christian martyrs. They died not because of their ethnicity but because of their religious faith.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: There were no any problem with ethnicity. There were Armenians like 2% of Armenians in Ottoman Empire were Muslim. And just these 2% are living till now in the north of Ottoman Empire without any trouble.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Interesting.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: The other 98%, every Christian Armenian who were asked this question, who answered that he will not convert to Islam, were killed.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: That’s amazing. And so that kind of defines 20th century, 21st century Armenian culture. We stood steadfast in our faith and were murdered for it. So Christianity is at the center of Armenian culture. Is that fair to say?

 

THE FIRST CHRISTIAN NATION

NAREK KARAPETYAN: It’s the first nation who has ever converted to Christian. In 301 was an Armenian kingdom. So in 301, before Constantine, before the Roman Empire, 11 years before Constantine, before Edict of Milan, it was 312, I guess. Armenia, like 11 years before, Armenian king Tiridates III converted to Christian religion and converted all our population to Christian religion.

 

And we are the oldest, eldest Christian nation in the world. That’s why our church and our identity are so already, it’s the same thing. The 80% or 70% of our identity comes from Christian values and our church, values of our church.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Well that’s fascinating. And it’s, I mean the state of California where I’m originally from, the Armenian community is very, extremely successful, but very cohesive. Like they have a sense of themselves in a great way, I think. And that’s why obviously.

 

So over the past 30 years Armenia has been involved in a number of conflicts, really a sort of long running sporadic war with Azerbaijan, which is an Islamic country.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yes.

 

THE WAR WITH AZERBAIJAN

TUCKER CARLSON: How many Armenians were killed in that war?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Almost 20,000 people were killed for defending a Christian population of Nagorno-Karabakh. And at the end of the war, the last war, the Christian population of Nagorno-Karabakh exceeded. Like everyone came to Armenia. And now after 2,000 years of living in this region, there is no any Christian in region of Nagorno-Karabakh.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: So there are none.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: There is no any.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: What I don’t understand is why nobody said anything as that was going on and why Christian leaders in the west didn’t say anything while that was going on that I heard.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: I think it’s a matter of real politics. We have allies with, we have a very close relationship with Greek nation, with Greece, we have close relationship with Cyprus. But even from there we felt that we had support, but not the support was just with words, not any actions. I know that real politics and the help of Turkey to Azerbaijan make the many countries that were allies with us or were in a good relationship with us to avoid.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: They didn’t want to get crossways with powerful countries like Turkey. I understand that.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: And this is what we have. Like this is the problem we face all over our history because the Armenian nation is in the center of a region where like Turkey, Azerbaijan, Iran and the only religious, only Christian nation of this from these three countries. And always we had this oppression from the empires like Ottoman Empire, there is Qajar Empire and other empires.

 

And the only thing made us to be unite and to save our culture was the church and education from the church. Yes, the schools. That church was built all over the country to educate us to be Christian and to be an Armenian Christian.

 

ISRAEL’S ROLE IN THE CONFLICT

TUCKER CARLSON: I was and remain confused by the role of Israel in this, in this war. Azerbaijan, Islamic Nation versus Armenia, Christian Nation and the cleansing of Christians from Nagorno-Karabakh, the region you just mentioned. Israel took a very aggressive position on the side of Azerbaijan against the Christians using American tax dollars to do it. So Israel was a participant in this war.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: The participation of Israel was the support of Azerbaijan by weapon and it was a part of real politics. But the problem…

 

TUCKER CARLSON: What kind of weapons?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Drones, like aircraft, aircraft and other. It’s like not just defense and attack.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: But offensive weapons, offensive Azerbaijan received from…

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Israel and drones, many of drones and many of them were operated by, as we have read in media, by operators from these companies of Israeli companies.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: So wow. So you think they were Israeli drone operators?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because as many media told, like it was in many magazines and that.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: So that would mean that Israelis were killing Christians in this war with US tax dollars. I mean, because the Israeli defense sector is supported, billions and billions a year by the United States.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: The issue is about the real politics. They were, they are getting gas from Azerbaijan.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Gasoline.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Gasoline. They buy gasoline. I think the 70% of Israel gasoline is coming from Azerbaijan. And they have some type of economic ally. They are allies economically. The main issue is today real politics sometimes is like, make a big problem for the nations who want to defend themselves alone in the regions we are minority.

 

BOB AMSTERDAM: Yeah.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, of course. And that’s how the world works. I just suppose from an American perspective it’s like, why are my tax dollars being used to murder Christians around the world? Cleanse the Christians from Iraq, cleanse the Christians from Nagorno-Karabakh, murder Armenian Christians. Like why am I paying for this?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: It is a problem. It is a problem.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Problem for me. Yeah.

 

ATTACKS ON THE ARMENIAN CHURCH

So now you have a lull in the fighting with Azerbaijan, but you have a prime minister of Armenia who seems to be intent on destroying traditional Christianity or the church. Tell me what this is.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah, after like last two, three years after losing the war in Nagorno-Karabakh and after making like all the people, Christians from Nagorno-Karabakh have moved to Armenia. Our new prime minister decides to have a better relationship with Azerbaijan.

 

Better relationship with everyone is always welcomed by Armenian society. We are okay with this. But what we feel, we feel that Turkey or Azerbaijan had a mission like made him to change the narratives of the church. And he wants to change the narratives of the church to forget the issue of genocide, forget our history.

 

And our prime minister, six months ago he started attack Armenian church and head of Armenian church. He wants to dethrone him and he wants to dethrone, to change the structure of Armenian church that is like 1,700 years old. Because of taking control of the church. It’s the main institution in our country. Like 90%, 95% of our population are the members of Armenian Apostolic Church.

 

And when he started to attack against the church, our society was shocked because nobody have done it before him. Even at Ottoman time. And many people in Armenian society, they were against them, against it. But they couldn’t say anything.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Why?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Because they were afraid of some oppression from the government side. Armenia is a democratic country.

 

I think it’s one of the last democratic countries in this region in the last 30 years. We have elections, we have new leaders. It’s not authoritarian country. But this prime minister evolves from democratic leader every year. We see his changing to more authoritarian style of ruling because of decreasing of his reputation in Armenia.

 

And now he attacked the church. He took to prison three archbishops.

 

ARCHBISHOPS IMPRISONED

TUCKER CARLSON: He put archbishops in prison?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah. Archbishop, for you to understand, it’s not shock. We were, why the one of archbishop were took to prison? Because four years ago in an interview he said that this prime minister must be changed. The second archbishop was in prison, was taken to prison because of like three years ago or five years ago, he went into a protest against the prime minister.

 

And it’s, and nobody like from influential part of Armenian society, everyone were afraid of to talk about this. Yeah, the, you know, the city, everyone could talk who hadn’t a business, who hadn’t an influence, but influential part didn’t want to do it.

 

And the one man who started talk about this was my uncle, Samvel Karapetyan. He is one of the wealthiest Armenian in the world and biggest Armenian philanthropist of last 15 years. He is the biggest philanthropist in Armenia. So very many hospitals, kindergartens, schools.

 

And when he came to Armenia, he lives out of Armenia. He came to Armenia and at the 40 days of his father’s grave, and we have a tradition to go to church at liturgy in 40 days of someone grave.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Good for you. So when someone dies, an Armenian dies, the family mourns for 40 days.

 

Samvel Karapetyan Speaks Out

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And goes to liturgy. And when he came to Armenia and he was in liturgy, after liturgy, after mass in the church, the journalist came to him and said, “What do you think about the attacks from the side of government, attacks against the church?”

 

And he said, like it was 37 seconds, “What can I think if a small group of people forgetting Armenian history, forgetting history of our church is attacking Armenian church and Armenian people. If the politician will not handle the situation, we will take part of handling it by ourselves our way.”

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Good.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: It was 37 seconds. Do you know what’s going on after it?

 

TUCKER CARLSON: What happened?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: After 30 minutes of this interview, our prime minister posted on Facebook that this philanthropist must shut his mouth. After three hours he sent police special forces to a residence of Samvel Karapetyan, who is the most famous philanthropist of the country. And everyone was shocked. We were shocked too.

 

And these police forces came to his residence without a judge order. Armenia is a democratic country. We never saw something like this. And everything was going on, cameras showed everything. So everyone knows that he said it. 37 seconds. Then the prime minister was in parliament. He posted something like this on Facebook. And policemen came to the residence of Samvel Karapetyan.

 

But what happened then? The demonstrators came to the residence of Samvel Karapetyan to defend him. Thousands of people came to his house to defend him from police. And that day, usually when police come, it’s five minutes to take someone to jail, to police station. It was 14 hours. Demonstrators didn’t want to let him go to police station and they were saying, bring order of judge.

 

The demonstrators told the policeman and then he decided to go himself to police station to not cause a clash between policemen and demonstrators. And after that he was arrested and I was arrested too and my father, his brother was arrested.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: What were you arrested for?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: I don’t know, just being his nephew, just being there, I don’t know. And I remember we were in police station eight hours and they were looking for an article to charge because there is no article in 37 seconds.

 

I remember investigator came to the room and said, “Oh, I found one article,” and then the other said, “No, it doesn’t work.” And after seven hours they found an article and charged it that he said that the prime minister must be dethroned. But in this 37 second interview, you can watch it on YouTube, everyone can do it. There were no any word about the prime minister and anything.

 

And he is now in jail still. They took him to jail five months and the jail name, I don’t know what is the jail name, the KGB basement. So there’s that old Soviet time, communist time prison where the communists sent the people who were not agree with communist ideas. And he’s there in 12 square meters for defending the church and for this 37 seconds. He’s still in jail.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Well, Grand Canyon University is not like most American colleges. It focuses on the things that actually matter. It is not a ripoff. It is the real thing. It’s private, affordable Christian university located in the heart of Phoenix.

 

THE PRIME MINISTER’S ANTI-CHRISTIAN AGENDA

TUCKER CARLSON: So this prime minister, who’s clearly authoritarian by definition, is against the church. So the idea is to break the back of orthodox Christianity, of traditional Christianity in Armenia and to use the police to do it. Is this popular? Do people like this?

 

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NAREK KARAPETYAN: It’s very unpopular. Like, 90% of the population is against that. And with population, our society doesn’t understand why he’s doing that.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: So his agenda, Armenia is a traditional country. Traditional families predominate. I noticed that the prime minister’s wife was interviewed and said something to the effect that women in traditional families are all unhappy.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wants to change the society, but with power, not with soft power.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: The way he wants to change the society is very familiar to Americans. He is focusing on transgenderism is a good thing. LGBTQ agenda, whatever that is.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Anti-traditionalism. So not to the traditional families. Like, you mustn’t care about your son. He must decide what to do.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: What, whether to become a woman or have sex with men or whatever.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: No, he hadn’t said something like this, but mostly he’s against the traditional values. So everyone knows that he has idea of changing our society.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: To make it less Christian.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: To make it less Christian. Yeah. Yeah, I guess.

 

WHO’S BEHIND THE ANTI-CHRISTIAN PUSH?

TUCKER CARLSON: Who’s supporting him in this? This has happened in every country in the west, almost every country in the west, with varying degrees of success. But who is behind that? Who’s pushing this?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Who is behind that in every country in the West?

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Yeah, that’s a good question.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Is the same people who is doing it in Armenia? They are doing it here too, I guess.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Oh. And they’ve been extremely successful. I mean, they’ve destroyed our social fabric with this. But who are those people? Who is, let’s just stick with Armenia. Who’s supporting this prime minister? The population doesn’t support him.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: You know, I think the main issue when we thought why he’s doing it against the church, we think that he gets some information from Turkey and Azerbaijan that you must change the narrative of the church to forget the genocide and to have a new head of church for being, for going to a peace deal between Armenia and Azerbaijan.

 

And we feel that he wants to change the head of church to change. Then he will change the narrative of the church and to make our people to forget all our ancestors have done for our Christian religion and for being an Armenian. And this is the thing that we must show our societies that this is the way they work.

 

They want to destroy all the historical truth for some reasons. The reason is to be in peace, but we can’t. We are very welcome to be in peace, but these people, one and a half million people were killed already. They were killed for their religion. We must, Ottoman Empire must accept it. The Ottoman Turks or Turks must accept it because after that we will live in a more peaceful region.

 

CONTROLLING HISTORY TO CONTROL THE FUTURE

TUCKER CARLSON: Anyone who’s forcing you to lie about history is your enemy. And of course the purpose is always to maintain power. Right? Whoever controls the story, the past controls the future. Of course. That’s why Wikipedia exists, to lie to us about the past.

 

So last question. This is, I mean by any definition a grotesque human rights violation. You’re arresting Christian clergy because you don’t like their theological views, you don’t like their views of history, so you throw them in prison. How many Christian churches in the west have weighed in on this, have supported the clergy under arrest, have put pressure on the Armenian prime minister to stop arresting Christian clergy? Like, how much support are you getting from the West?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: We are getting support from the west, from the churches.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: You are?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There is a huge support and we are appreciated for this. And I want to tell you one more thing, like why these people are brave when they are going against the government’s ideas. My uncle Samvel Karapetyan and the clergyman, they could be released like tomorrow if they say that they will not defend the church.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s always the same story, isn’t it?

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah. So my uncle, we had like they wanted to confiscate his businesses in Armenia. He knows it, but he wants to defend the church after that too. So he’s continuing to. And the church. And this is the idea. These are the persons with whom we must, I think we must learn something because it’s like in first, it’s like in 20th century when this Armenian, our ancestors were sacrificed in Ottoman Empire for their religion.

 

I am proud that Samvel Karapetyan is, he can be free, he can be with his business, but he doesn’t do this for his religion because religion and faith matters. It’s important. Like the first Christian in first century, they were oppressed, but they fought for their religion. And this is the case Samvel Karapetyan faces now.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: It’s inspiring to watch. It’s upsetting to watch at the same time. So Godspeed. Thank you for telling us that story. Too few people know. And it’s not just about Armenia, of course. It’s a global push.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Against this one specific religion, against Jesus. So that’s what they hate.

 

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Thank you very much.

 

TUCKER CARLSON: Thank you for doing this. I appreciate it.

Serzh Sargsyan’s Machiavellian gambit turned upon him

 Vaհe H Apelian

"The negotiation process in the Nagorno-Karabakh issue is at a standstill”, PM elect Serzh Sargsyan, April 17, 2018 at 13:00, in the National Assembly. 

Serzh Sargsyan on April 17, 2028 in the National Assembly

Serzh Sargsyan had a marathon public showing to exonerate himself from the historic loss of Nagorno-Karabagh. But the fact of the matter is that his Machiavellian plan to trap his political adversary Nikol Pashinyan turned upon him thanks to the collective wisdom of the citizens of Armenia. At this moment he is the lesser opposition having not even garnered 7% of the votes to be in the NA. But since the law mandates that the NA has to have at least three parties, “I Honor Alliance” he led, was given 7 seats, while Kocharyan’s “Armenia Alliance” has 29 seats.  

But on April 17, 2018, Serzh Sargsyan was at the apex of his power as the National Assembly of Armenia elected him Prime Minister under 2015 amended constitution which had ushered Armenia from presidential form of governance to parliamentarian form of governance. Another five years were thus added to the 10 years he served as the president. The election tally was 77 for and 13 against his candidacy.  His election was followed by a Q&A session regarding the settlement of the ongoing Nagorno-Karabakh / Artsakh conflict, during which Serzh Sargsyan struck a cautionary note letting it be known the negotiations are at a standstill. Armenpress reported the day’s session and posted the following report, posted below.

YEREVAN, APRIL 17, (2018) ARMENPRESS. During a Q&A session on the election of the Prime Minister at the special session of the Armenian Parliament, RPA faction MP Karen Bekaryan addressed question to Serzh Sargsyan, candidate for PM, on the negotiation process over the Nagorno Karabakh conflict, reports Armenpress. MP Bekaryan noted that the negotiation process doesn’t inspire optimism.

“It’s clear for everyone that it is conditioned by unconstructive approaches and behavior of the Azerbaijani leadership”, Karen Bekaryan said and asked Serzh Sargsyan how in these circumstances he imagines the future of peaceful negotiations and what new steps he is going to take to return the Azerbaijani leadership to more constructive negotiations.

Serzh Sargsyan said the negotiation process really doesn’t inspire optimism, but more concretely, this process, according to him, is simply suspended as the expectations of the Azerbaijani leadership from the negotiations result are unrealistic and unacceptable.

“I should state that before this stage we have taken all possible measures to move forward the negotiation process so that the agreements reached will have some stability and serve as a base for successfully completing the negotiations. Unfortunately, some time later it turns out that our meetings and negotiations not only on talks over the existing document on the NK conflict, but also on matters of creating some trust measures, maintaining the ceasefire regime are unnecessary as our partners do not maintain the agreements”, he said. 

Serzh Sargsyan said based on the claims of Artsakh’s President, leadership, he once again announces:

“We are ready, and our desire is to solve the conflict by peaceful means, and this conflict can be solved, the negotiation process can intensify if the Azerbaijani leadership refuses from its empty imaginations according to which mutual concessions mean only concessions by Nagorno Karabakh and Armenia. This cannot happen”, he said.

But as for the future steps, Serzh Sargsyan said the future will show what additional steps can be taken for one of these key issues to have an effective solution. »

While the session was taking place, Nikol Pashinyan who was leading the popular unrest that will be known as the Velvet Revolution, declared that the Republic of Armenia does not have a prime minister by the name of Sezh Sargsyan.

April 17 to April 22, the country's seat Yerevan was caught in the frenzy of the unrest and protests.

On April 22, 2018 Nikol Pashinyan declared that tomorrow on April 23, at 10 am in the morning, he will be meeting with Serzh Sargsyan in «Armenia Mariott» hotel.  But he and a few others were arrested and held in solitary confinement overnight, then released on April 23. 

On April 23, 2018, the planned meeting between PM Serzh Sargsyan and Nikol Pashinyan took place in the morning. PM Serzh Sargsyan held Nikol Pashinyan responsible and reminded him of the March 1, 2008 incident and abruptly left the hall. However, Serzh Sargsyan resigned his post as the PM in the afternoon, and issued the following declaration: «Nikol Pashinyan was right. I was wrong. The current situation has several solutions, but I will not go to any of them. It is not mine. I leave the post of Prime Minister of Armenia as the head of the country. The street movement is against my tenure. I fulfill your demand: peace, harmony and logic for our country. Thank you.” 

May 8, 2018, Nikol Pashinyan was elected the PM of Armenia with 59 votes in favor and 42 votes against. «The Way Out – ելք”, “Tsarukyan Alliance” and ARF voted in favor of Nikol Pashinyan, including a few members of the Republican Party of Armenia.

The antigovernment protests that had started on March 31, 2018, when Nikol Pashinyan and his supporters started their march from Gyumri towards Yerevan, ended on May 8, 2018, with Nikol Pashinyan’s election. The protest came to be known as Armenia’s bloodless Velvet Revolution, that brought about a new government.  

Serzh Sargsyan's post resignation relentless pursuit of power, made it ever so evident that Serzh Sargsyan's resignation was a Machiavellian political gambit. War with Azerbaijan had become a certainty. The old guard Serzh Sargsyan calculated that Armenia’s defeat under PM Nikol Pashinyan’s watch will facilitate his taking over the reins of power anew, attributing Armenia's defeat to the inexperienced PM. 

But the Armenian public saw it otherwise and reelected Nikol Pashinyan on June 2021, at the post 44-day Second Artsakh war snap general election. The Armenian public, as noted, had already elected Nikol Pashinyan led Civil Contract alliance in the December 2018 snap general election to rule on the May 8, 2018 parliamentary election. 

The post 44-day Second Artsakh war snap general election in June 2021, secured Nikol Pashinyan led Civil Contract party 54% of the vote, against Robert Kocharyan led Armenia Alliance that had 21% of the votes and Serzh Sargsyan led “I have Honor Alliance” that had 5% of the votes.

The election results cemented Nikol Pashinyan led Civil Contract’s hold of the Armenian government, which in turn led to the signing of the August 8, 2025 peace deal with Azerbaijan brokered by the U.S.                                               

                                                    ***

Sources

Armenpress 17/04/2018 13:00: “Armenia’s desire is to solve Karabakh conflict through peaceful means – Serzh Sargsyan”

«Հայկական Թավշյա Հեղափոխություն», Ստեփան Գրիգորյան. 2018

 

 

A disastrous interview

Vaհe H Apelian

The much-heralded interview of Samuel Karapetyan’s nephew Narek Karapetyan by Carlson Tucker took place. Surely, a hefty sum of money, only an oligarch at the caliper Samuel Karapetyan, could afford spending to secure a slot on the popular Carlson Tucker Show. What a disastrous interview it was. The whole interview consisted of two parts. The first 30 minutes was devoted to Narek Karapetyan where he upheld his uncle’s staunch support of the Armenian church and Christian values against the PM of Armenia, who ostensibly wants to udo such values. The remaining 90 minutes were devoted to Samuel Karapetyan’s lawyer Robert Amsterdam. A considerable part of that interview pertained to Ukraine and Western related issue. Two to two and a half minutes of Narek Karapetyan’s interview, from approximately 9:50 to 12:20, will resonate in the Armenian media. Not to inadvertently misquote, I transcribed that section, and posted below,

 

TUCKER CARLSON: I was and remain confused by the role of Israel in this, in this war. Azerbaijan, Islamic Nation versus Armenia, Christian Nation and the cleansing of Christians from Nagorno-Karabakh, the region you just mentioned. Israel took a very aggressive position on the side of Azerbaijan against the Christians using American tax dollars to do it. So Israel was a participant in this war.

NAREK KARAPETYAN: The participation of Israel was the support of Azerbaijan by weapon and it was a part of real politics. But the problem…

TUCKER CARLSON: What kind of weapons?

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Drones, like aircraft, aircraft and other. It’s like not just defense and attack.

TUCKER CARLSON: But offensive weapons, offensive Azerbaijan received from…

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Israel and drones, many of drones and many of them were operated by, as we have read in media, by operators from these companies of Israeli companies.

TUCKER CARLSON: So, wow. So, you think they were Israeli drone operators?

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because as many media told, like it was in many magazines and that.

TUCKER CARLSON: So that would mean that Israelis were killing Christians in this war with US tax dollars. I mean, because the Israeli defense sector is supported, billions and billions a year by the United States.

NAREK KARAPETYAN: The issue is about the real politics. They were, they are getting gas from Azerbaijan.

TUCKER CARLSON: Gasoline.

NAREK KARAPETYAN: Gasoline. They buy gasoline. I think the 70% of Israel gasoline is coming from Azerbaijan. And they have some type of economic ally. They are allies economically. The main issue is today real politics sometimes is like, make a big problem for the nations who want to defend themselves alone in the regions we are minority.

BOB AMSTERDAM: Yeah.

 TUCKER CARLSON: I mean, of course. And that’s how the world works. I just suppose from an American perspective it’s like, why are my tax dollars being used to murder Christians around the world? Cleanse the Christians from Iraq, cleanse the Christians from Nagorno-Karabakh, murder Armenian Christians. Like why am I paying for this?

NAREK KARAPETYAN: It is a problem. It is a problem.

TUCKER CARLSON: Problem for me. Yeah.

 

                                                                ***

Note: Those interested may read the transcript of the entire interview with Carlson Tucker

By: Narek Karapetyan: https://vhapelian.blogspot.com/2025/11/narek-karapetyan-robert-amsterdam-on.html

By: Robert Amsterdam: https://vhapelian.blogspot.com/2025/11/narek-karapetyan-robert-amsterdam-by.html

How many from the "traditional" diaspora participated

 Vaհe H Apelian

Left: Viken Zakarin
Right, top to bottom: Monte Melkonian, Mher Juldjian, Garo Kahkedjian  

Today, Kegham Papazian commented that many “Armenians came to Armenia from Armenian communities in Lebanon, Canada, and other Middle Eastern countries and participated in the two Artsakh wars, fought, and many died.” Then he cited the name of American Armenian Monte Melkonian.

The other day a friend (Charles Bargamian) stating that “Many Americans came to fight in the motherland for Artsakh’s freedom and also lost their lives!”.

A person killed in a war is the world taken away from his family and loved ones. But it is fair that we should weigh the burden of the wars and the martyrs on the Diaspora, that is three times more populous than Armenia,  and on Armenia/Artsakh.. I know no Diaspora institutional source that authenticates the number of Diaspora volunteers who took part in the Karabagh liberation wars and the names of the Karabakh liberation war martyrs from Diaspora.

But I know one person, Vartan Tashjian, who had his boots on the ground in Karabagh liberation war for four years. Those years are now behind me he says. He gave the following speculation as to how many from Diaspora could be estimated to have taken part in the first Karabagh war. 

Here is his speculative comment, he wrote a few years ago:

“Thirty-one years ago today, the fierce fighting in the Karabakh war ceased. 

Yesterday, during an online conversation with young people, the question arose about how many people from the "traditional" diaspora participated in the war? Young people from 5-6 countries were present at the conversation. One of them believed that the number of participants was 7,000. He said that there were 700 participants from France alone. Others gave 5,000, 2,000, 1,000, 500, and other numbers.

The end of the conversation was shocking for many when I suggested making a rough estimate of the number of participants based on the following estimate. The number of Armenian fighters killed in 1990-1994 is estimated at about 6,000 (+). The number of participants in the fighting is estimated at about 50 thousand. Four from the traditional Diaspora fighters died - Monte Melkonian, Mher Julhadjian, Garo Kahkedjian (The White Bear), and Viken Zakarian. Forgive me if I have a martyr whose identity I do not know. 

Based on the above data (the overall mortality rate is about 12%), the number of participants from the traditional Diaspora comes out to be about to 34. Considering that the participation of the overwhelming majority of the traditional Diaspora youth, was incomparably short-lived, compared to the fighters from Armenia and especially from Karabakh; the mortality rate can be calculated at a lower number. Thus, the number of participants can be multiplied by two, three, four, five, six, seven. The number of participants comes out to b 68, 102, 136, 170, 204, 238 persons. Which is still very far from the smallest number -500 - estimated by one of the young participants.

 A more accurate presentation of the facts (the geography of the participants, the forms and duration of participation, motivation, etc.) is expected mainly from historians of the war.”

In conclusion, Vartan Tashjian names five Diaspora Armenians who were martyred during the Artsakh liberation war, out of liberally estimated 238 Diaspora Armenians who participated in the Artsakh liberation war. It is estimated that 6000 from  Armenia  and Artsakh, were martyred out of  50,000 plus Armenians from Armenia and Artsakh who took part in the liberation war. These figures are open for dispute on grounds that the disputant may present. 

I find Vartan’s estimation very reasonable. The burden of the Karabakh liberation war, and its consequences, were overwhelmingly shouldered by the citizens of Armenia and Artsakh, who continue to shoulder the brunt of the consequences of the two Artsakh wars. 

This brings to the institutional Diaspora’s role in supporting Armenia. Diaspora needs to have an informed understanding of the budding democratic governance in the free and independent Republic of Armenia. PM Nikol Pashinyan emphatically notes: “Do you love your homeland? Strengthen its state.” Surely, he meant Armenia’s democratic state. Armenian democracy is   ridden with faults. Is not the American democracy, not ridden with faults? At the dawn of its semi quincentennial, the U.S. of America is still in quest of the perfect union. Democracy is a process, if not a race, but without a finish line. 

I know and understand the complexity of the matter and the short comings of what I pen here. But I believe Diaspora’s contribution or assistance to Armenia is unconditional or should be unconditional with no strings attached, in any form and shape.

Those from Diaspora, who claim that they have entitlements for shaping the course of Armenia, or have expectations as to how Armenia should chart its course, because of a support they render to Armenia, should cease supporting Armenia. 

Diasporans have absolutely no obligation to support Armenia. The citizens of Armenia have obligations towards their country Armenia, our homeland, and they struggle among themselves to shape its course. 

 

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A tapestry of the Armenian Diaspora: A book review

Vaհe H Apelian

First and foremost, I thank Dr. Hrayr Jebejian for gifting me a personalized copy of his book “Armenian Ethnographic Insights: Vision, Will and Hope – Հայկական Ազգագրական Պատկերներ՝ Տեսիլք, Կամք եւ Յոյս”. The book is in Western Armenian but my review of the book will in English. My notations in my Facebook tell me that I received the personalized copy of his book he gifted me on May 2, 2024. It took me over a year to read each and every chapter, sporadically, along with my other readings.

Before I detail my review of the book, I will transcribe here what has been noted about the book on one of its last pages, simply because it sums up the book, which “offers a collection of articles written between 2018 and 2022. These articles appeared in Armenian newspapers and magazine in Lebanon and the Diaspora. The articles deal with national, cultural, political, social and economic challenges of Armenians everywhere-from Syria to Yerevan, the US and UK, the Netherlands to Turkey. The articles are compiled chronologically. They highlight the author’s first-hand experiences and encounters in the last five years with Armenians in Africa, Australia, Europe and North America. Rightly, an ethnographic study of one of the biggest diaspora communities in the world, as they document not only the daily lives of countless Armenian communities and individuals scattered globally but also their struggles for the preservation of the Armenian culture, identity and faith.” In a nutshell that is what the book is about. 

Instead of articles, however, I will characterize his narrations as reflections, simply because each is a reflection and not only a mere narration. There was a time when an Armenian traveler would introduce itself as an “Armenian Christian”. So is this book. It is an Armenian Christian globe-throttler who is knocking the doors of  readers of his book and introducing himself to his readers by his reflections on his encounters during his travels, and during periods of solitude and soul-searching.

The book is almost 400 pages long. It is chronologically listed as noted earlier. There are twenty-seven (27) chapters for the year 2018, eighteen (18) chapters for the year 2019; nineteen (19) chapters for the year 2020, eighteen (18) chapters for the year 2021, and fifteen (15) chapters for the year 2022. The five-year span the book covers is historically a crucial span of the world and of the modern Armenian history. It encompassed the Armenian Velvet revolution, the global Covid pandemic, the disastrous 44-Day long second Artsakh war Armenia lost and the reality of the immediate aftermath of Armenia’s defeat on Armenians across the globe. Dr. Hrayr Jebejian reflected on all that transpired during that period. The book was published by the Hamazkayin publishing in Beirut in 2023. Dr.& Mrs.  Haroutium and Maro Jebejians from Syndney, Austalia have  sponsored the publication of the book        

This book could only have been written by Dr. Hrayr Jebejian. He is the General Secretary of the Bible Society in the Gulf. He is the only person I know of, who has traversed and traverses the world because of the nature of his job, which also is his calling. He reflected on his experiences during his travels, not only of his encounters, but also when he was on his own, engrossed in his own thoughts.

To give a glimpse of the Armenians Hrayr Jebejian encountered during his trips, I list the names of cities and countries he cites without any order but simply in the order of the notes I took during my reading. I will note that there are instances where he cites the city and another time the country in the same narration. I simply jotted both down as I came across them. They are,  Beirut, Aleppo, Florida, Northern Ireland, Paris, Lausanne, Bahrain, Kuwait, Amsterdam, Dubai, Qatar, Oakland, New Zealand, Wellington, Sydney, Bucharest, Budapest, Sofia, Nairobi, Kenya, Bolis (Istanbul),Oslo, Denmark, Turkey, Almelo, Holland, Geneva, Switzerland. And of course, Yerevan, Armenia.

He wrote the following (see note 1): «"During my long term work related trips, over many years, I have had the opportunity to get acquainted with Armenian communities across the world. There, I witnessed the colorful and diverse realities of the Armenian Diaspora, which when brought together,  I saw one large mosaic of the Armenian Diaspora reality, with its different shades. We are Armenians, but we are also different.."  True to his reflection, Dr Hrayr presented to the readers the diverse Diaspora Armenians he enountered. He is not judgemental in his narrations, but remains reflective with the conviction, and the  vision, the will, and the hope of a Christian Armenian traveller.

Dr. Hrayr Jebejian recieved his doctoral degree in Bible Engagement fomr the New York Theological Seminary in 2014. He is married to Dr. Arda Jebejian. They are blessed with two chidren, Vahe and Alik and a granddaughter  Lilia.

I recommend reading this book. Each chapter is a reflective narration on its own. A reader my read at its leisure, one or two chapters at a time and continue on reading at its own pace, much like I did, and thus keep abreast of the Armenian Diaspora across the globe, on which the sun never sets.

 

Note: «Երկար տարիներու վրայ երկարած աշխատանքային ճամբորութիւններուս ընթացքին առիթը ունեցած եմ ծանօթանալու Հայկական գաղութներու  աշխարհով մէկ։ Հոն կրգայ տեսնել սփիւռքահայ գունաւոր  եւ տարբեր իրականութիւններ որոնք բոլոը քով քովի բերելով տեսայ սփիւռքահայ իրականութեան մէկ մեծ խճանկարը  իր տարբեր երանգներով՝ հայ ենք, բայց տարբեր ենք։ Այս իրականութիւննէն մեկնելով արժէ քննարկել սփիւռքահայ պատմութեավն տարբեր տուեալները։» (էջ 327)

 

 

 

The Promises and the Perils of Democracy: Only in America

Vaհe H Apelian

Sometime ago, a friend asked me what did I think of the mayoral race in New York. I told him that I do not live in New York and I am not following the mayoral election there.  But I told him I knew of the two of the candidates, Andrew Cuomo and Curtis Sliwa and that I had not heard of the third, Madani, yes, in fact that is what I wrote. But I know now better. Zohran Kwame Mamdan has emerged as the winner of the New York mayoral race.

 I knew of Andrew Cuomo as the son of the NY governor Mario Cuomo (1983-1994). The fact that Andrew was also elected governor of the state never crossed my mind, simply because it had not registered in my mind. But there was a reason his father Mario Cuomo has remained etched in my memory as governor. I attended St. John’s University during the years Mario Cuomo was the governor of the Empire State. Coincidentally the governor of California, the Golden State, during those years was George Deukmejian (1983-1991), who also was a graduate of St. John’s University. Both had received their law degree from that revered institution, making the governors at the time, of the two populous and maybe most influential states, New York, on the Atlantic Coast; and California, on the Pacific Coast, graduates of St. John’s University, I was attending.

During those years, give and take a few years, Curtis Sliwa was an unmistakable presence on the national television with his red beret as the founder of the Guardian Angels, who were combating crime on violence on the New York subways.

But Mamdani is a mystery to me. I read about him in Wikipedia. He came across to me as an Indian Diasporan, whose roots are from India but who, has grown up in Diaspora. He reminded me of the Armenian Diasporan and of Armenian Diaspora. 

Reaction to Mamdadi’s election is intense, from the president down to the ordinary citizens. A friend commented saying, “next year marks 25 years since 9/11… and Mamdani will be the mayor of New York City. Think about that! Absolutely disgraceful. I’m sick to my stomach that this happened.”

 I remember reading that when the economy is down, patriotism is up, so is, apparently, religiosity. 

The election of 34 years old Mamdani, against such established names and connections, native to New York is indeed phenomenal. 

Apparently, democracy, if allowed, marches on in its own tempo. For some its march is a promise. For others its march is a peril. Well beyond that, what Churchill has allegedly said rings true, that Democracy is the worst form of government, but there is no better, simply because democracy is a reflection of the true nature of us, we have to contend with by taming our worst impulses and nurturing the best; the best we can.