Republic of Armenia: First official visit to Turkey Report on November 23, 1918

Avedis Aharonian on his meetings with Talaat, Enver, and other people in Constantinople: November 23, 1918, Yerevan. The post was a report that appeared in the ZANK newspaper, ARF organ, No. 75, Sunday, December 1, 1918. Tatul Hagopyan had posted the on his page - Ահարոնյանը իր՝ Թալեաթի, Էնվերի և Պոլսի մյուս հանդիպումների մասին․ 1918-ի նոյեմբերի 23, Երևան -. Vaհe H Apelian

 

«On the 23rd of this month [November 1918], unger Avedis Aharonian, the chairman of the delegation to Bolis (Constantinople), gave to a small group of friends, a very interesting report, the brief content of which we present here.

The members of the delegation were Aharonian, Alexander Khatisian and Mikayel Papajanian. On the 13th of June [1918], the delegation left Tiflis and on the 19th of the same month arrived in Constantinople, where it remained until November 1, that is, approximately 4 and a half months.

In the port of Constantinople, while still on the ship, the delegation was met by  the  makhmandar, the government representative acting as the host, Mukhtar Bey, who welcomed the arrival of the delegation “on behalf of the Ottoman imperial government.” To which the delegation responded that they thank the Sublime Port “on behalf of the Armenian government.”

From the seaport, our delegation was driven to the city in government cars and accommodated in the Tokatlian Hotel, while the Georgian and Azerbaijani delegations were accommodated in the Pera Palace. The delegation was provided with all kinds of amenities, as befits a representation of a state.

The arrival of the Armenian delegation in Constantinople made a stunning impression both on Turks and Armenians alike. The news of the delegation's arrival was published in the newspapers as a sensational news, because it was completely unexpected for all of Constantinople, for all of Turkey.

The Turkish public was simply stunned upon learning of the arrival of the Armenian delegation, because until then, the Turkish public was accustomed to reading that the Armenians had been exterminated in the Caucasus, that the entire Caucasus had been subjugated by Turkey. But now, it suddenly saw that the Armenians have not only not been exterminated, but, on the contrary, have found a separate state, whose representatives have come to Constantinople.

Sunday June 23, 1918

The Armenians of Constantinople were also stunned and completely astonished. They also thought that the Armenian element no longer existed in the Caucasus, that it had been exterminated as a nation, because the Turkish government and Turkish newspapers had convinced them so; and yet they suddenly heard that the Armenians not only exist, but on the contrary, have also founded a state and sent their delegation to Constantinople. At night, Armenians secretly went from house to house, whispering this, apparently unbelievable news to each other, to  convince themselves of its accuracy.

On the second or third day, the same makhmandar came to the delegation and presented a list of institutions and officials that the delegation was to visit. The strange thing was that there was no Armenian institution on the list, not even the patriarchate.

The first visit was to the Grand Vizier, Talaat Pasha. Of course it is understandable the difficult mental state that our delegation must have experienced at that moment.

After official introductions, the chairman of the delegation addressed the Grand Vizier with approximately the following words: “Your Highness, we are glad that we have come here under the auspices of your imperial government to work out the conditions of a good-neighborly alliance. Our people and country need to expand, and if you show us that goodwill, our friendship with you will improve even more. The problem must also be addressed here in the shortest possible time, because the situation is unbearable. Here, the positive solution of these problems must form the basis of our friendship.”

Turkey was first to recognize the 11,000 square km  Republic of Armenia, which made
the Armenin republic untenable.  

The issue of emigration interested the Grand Vizier. He asked, “How many emigrants do you have?” Approximately 800 thousand, the head of the delegation replied, of which 3-4 hundred thousand are Turkish-Armenians.” “That many Turkish-Armenians?” asked the Grand Vizier, and then  mysteriously fell silent.

“Very well,” replied the Grand Vizier, “these issues will be discussed at the conference.”

The next visit was given to the Minister of War, Enver Pasha. The outward impression was extremely favorable: with a pleasant look, well-mannered, modest, not  a deceit on his face. Here also, the delegation said approximately the same thing as it had said to Talaat Pasha.

Enver said, “I knew you would come. Armenians are good opponents and good fighters. from that point of view, we give them a very high place among the Caucasian nationalities.”

The President replied: “Armenians are not only good opponents, but also good friends.”

“Why not good allies?”, Enver suddenly asked. And here he touched on the issue of the military alliance between Armenia and Turkey, hastening to immediately add that this statement is not made by the government, but only by himself, that it was his plan

Enver also pointed out the conditions on which his supposed military alliance should be based. “Of course,” he said, “we, having become conscious, cannot demand from you that you fight in our ranks, together with us, against the British. We know that you will not do that. But we want to be safe at the rear of our army. When it moves towards the English, towards Persia, it cannot be endangered by you.” The delegation reported that this is a matter on which it had no instructions from its government, and therefore did not consider itself entitled to show any position towards the matter.

A number of other visits were also made, which were more  polite in nature thanpolitical nature. Among the other visits, notable was the visit to Khalil Bey will be reported next time.

 

Courtesy of Tatul Hakobyan
According to the Turkish ultimatum, the Armenian territory comprises 11,000 square verst, (1.07 km), 580,000 Armenians and approximately 100,000 Turkish. This territory falls west of Sevan Lake, south and south east"
Source: Horizon newspaper, May 31, 1918.

 

Republic of Armenia: First official visit to Turkey From June 13 to November 1, 1918

 Avedis Aharonian on his meetings with Talaat, Enver, and other people in Constantinople: November 23, 1918, Yerevan. The post was a report that appeared in the ZANK newspaper, ARF organ, No. 75, Sunday, December 1, 1918. Tatul Hagopyan had posted the on his page - Ահարոնյանը իր՝ Թալեաթի, Էնվերի և Պոլսի մյուս հանդիպումների մասին․ 1918-ի նոյեմբերի 23, Երևան -. Vaհe H Apelian

 

«On the 23rd of this month [November 1918], unger Avedis Aharonian, the chairman of the delegation to Bolis (Constantinople), gave to a small group of friends, a very interesting report, the brief content of which we present here.

The members of the delegation were Aharonian, Alexander Khatisian and Mikayel Papajanian. On the 13th of June [1918], the delegation left Tiflis and on the 19th of the same month arrived in Constantinople, where it remained until November 1, that is, approximately 4 and a half months.

In the port of Constantinople, while still on the ship, the delegation was met by  the  makhmandar, the government representative acting as the host, Mukhtar Bey, who welcomed the arrival of the delegation “on behalf of the Ottoman imperial government.” To which the delegation responded that they thank the Sublime Port “on behalf of the Armenian government.”

From the seaport, our delegation was driven to the city in government cars and accommodated in the Tokatlian Hotel, while the Georgian and Azerbaijani delegations were accommodated in the Pera Palace. The delegation was provided with all kinds of amenities, as befits a representation of a state.

The arrival of the Armenian delegation in Constantinople made a stunning impression both on Turks and Armenians alike. The news of the delegation's arrival was published in the newspapers as a sensational news, because it was completely unexpected for all of Constantinople, for all of Turkey.

The Turkish public was simply stunned upon learning of the arrival of the Armenian delegation, because until then, the Turkish public was accustomed to reading that the Armenians had been exterminated in the Caucasus, that the entire Caucasus had been subjugated by Turkey. But now, it suddenly saw that the Armenians have not only not been exterminated, but, on the contrary, have found a separate state, whose representatives have come to Constantinople.

Sunday June 23, 1918

The Armenians of Constantinople were also stunned and completely astonished. They also thought that the Armenian element no longer existed in the Caucasus, that it had been exterminated as a nation, because the Turkish government and Turkish newspapers had convinced them so; and yet they suddenly heard that the Armenians not only exist, but on the contrary, have also founded a state and sent their delegation to Constantinople. At night, Armenians secretly went from house to house, whispering this, apparently unbelievable news to each other, to  convince themselves of its accuracy.

On the second or third day, the same makhmandar came to the delegation and presented a list of institutions and officials that the delegation was to visit. The strange thing was that there was no Armenian institution on the list, not even the patriarchate.

The first visit was to the Grand Vizier, Talaat Pasha. Of course it is understandable the difficult mental state that our delegation must have experienced at that moment.

After official introductions, the chairman of the delegation addressed the Grand Vizier with approximately the following words: “Your Highness, we are glad that we have come here under the auspices of your imperial government to work out the conditions of a good-neighborly alliance. Our people and country need to expand, and if you show us that goodwill, our friendship with you will improve even more. The problem must also be addressed here in the shortest possible time, because the situation is unbearable. Here, the positive solution of these problems must form the basis of our friendship.”

Turkey was first to recognize the 11,000 square km  Republic of Armenia, which made
the Armenin republic untenable.  

The issue of emigration interested the Grand Vizier. He asked, “How many emigrants do you have?” Approximately 800 thousand, the head of the delegation replied, of which 3-4 hundred thousand are Turkish-Armenians.” “That many Turkish-Armenians?” asked the Grand Vizier, and then  mysteriously fell silent.

“Very well,” replied the Grand Vizier, “these issues will be discussed at the conference.”

The next visit was given to the Minister of War, Enver Pasha. The outward impression was extremely favorable: with a pleasant look, well-mannered, modest, not  a deceit on his face. Here also, the delegation said approximately the same thing as it had said to Talaat Pasha.

Enver said, “I knew you would come. Armenians are good opponents and good fighters. from that point of view, we give them a very high place among the Caucasian nationalities.”

The President replied: “Armenians are not only good opponents, but also good friends.”

“Why not good allies?”, Enver suddenly asked. And here he touched on the issue of the military alliance between Armenia and Turkey, hastening to immediately add that this statement is not made by the government, but only by himself, that it was his plan

Enver also pointed out the conditions on which his supposed military alliance should be based. “Of course,” he said, “we, having become conscious, cannot demand from you that you fight in our ranks, together with us, against the British. We know that you will not do that. But we want to be safe at the rear of our army. When it moves towards the English, towards Persia, it cannot be endangered by you.” The delegation reported that this is a matter on which it had no instructions from its government, and therefore did not consider itself entitled to show any position towards the matter.

A number of other visits were also made, which were more  polite in nature thanpolitical nature. Among the other visits, notable was the visit to Khalil Bey will be reported next time.

 

Courtesy of Tatul Hakobyan
According to the Turkish ultimatum, the Armenian territory comprises 11,000 square verst, (1.07 km), 580,000 Armenians and approximately 100,000 Turkish. This territory falls west of Sevan Lake, south and south east"
Source: Horizon newspaper, May 31, 1918.

My response - Upholding Medz Yeghern / the Armenian Genocide.

There surely is much more in upholding the Armenian Genocide than pursuing in the Diaspora its recognition by states.  Armenians in the diaspora cannot possibly detract from the voting citizens of Armenia in upholding and perpetuating Armenia and the Armenian culture. For lack of a better word, ARF bureau member Mourad Papazian belittling of the Armenian Government and its policies, consequently its Armenian voting citizens, from distant France is not only uncalled for, but is partisan in its core and anachronistic.

Today, at 10:44 am. I commented to a post by Mourad Papazian in the Armenian Weekly. He has titled it, “How can one agree with Nikol Pashinyan?”  My comment is awaiting moderation by the editorial staff and, “will be visible after it has been approved." (see below) Not all who may read my blog, subscribe to the Weekly. They may not read my comment even if the editorial staff agree to make it visible gets visible. I copied the comment I made and posted in this blog. Vaհe H Apelian

My comment:

“Mourad Papazian is presented to the readers with the commending leadership positions he occupies. But, especially for a man of such claimed stature, I am surprised by his ignorance of the rudimentary of the recent Armenian history. Otherwise, he would have known that the Republic of Armenia, since its inception on May 28, 1918, has not been pursuing the recognition of the Armenian genocide as a state policy, nor laying claims for historical Armenian lands.

Mourad Papazian may be excused for not knowing that the first Republic of Armenia signed the Treaty of Batumi (see link 1) with Turkey, on June 4, 1918, a week after declaring independence, for peace and friendship between the two states, as Turkey recognized the Republic of Armenia. He may also not know that a few days later, on June 13, a delegation representing the Republic of Armenia paid an official state visit to Turkey and was hosted accordingly. The delegation stayed there for almost four months and met a list of Turkish dignitaries. The delegation’s first scheduled meeting was, in Avedis Aharonian’s words, “the Grand Vizier Talaat Pasha”, and vouched for the nascent republic’s peace and friendship with Turkey (see link 2). 

Mourad Papazian may be excused for not knowing these and such extraordinary events took place over 100 years ago to safeguard the security, viability and the longevity of the nascent republic. But apparently, even though he is a member of the ARF Bureau, Mourad has no recollection of President Serzh Sargsyan government’s policy, to which the ARF-Armenia was invited and joined in governing Armenia, that pursued a policy of rapprochement with Turkey, the very same policy of not pursuing the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, to which Serzh Sargsyan in his official speeches and statements commemorating the Genocide, often referred to as Medz Yeghern. 

One more note, as a matter of principle, Mourad Papazian may speak on behalf of the French Armenians. He is claimed to represent them as co-president of the Coordinating Council of Armenian Organizations of France. But whenever someone has the audacity to speak on behalf of Diaspora, the person simply forfeits credibility or at best comes across attempting to project the person’s views as a Diaspora view. He makes such remarks in his text.

Come April 24, 2027, the PM Nikol Pashinyan and the other principals of his government will pay homage to the memory of the martyred Armenians during the Genocide. Business will be on hold that day in Armenia, as April 24 is a non-working holiday. I, from Diaspora, remain appreciative, if not morally indebted to the citizens of Armenia who from their earnings keep and maintain the Armenian Genocide memorial complex at Tsitsernakaberd for the Armenians world-wide. 

To sum up this lengthy comment and to answer Mourad Papazian rhetorical question for a headline, I continue on supporting the principles of the policies of the government, the citizens of Armenia elected to govern the Republic of Armenia.”

 

Link 1: A chronology of Armenia related events between 1915—1923, https://vhapelian.blogspot.com/search?q=Treaty+of+Batumi

Link 2: Republic of Armenia: First official visit to Turkey Report on November 23, 1918, https://vhapelian.blogspot.com/search?q=Grand+Vizier+Talaat+Pasha

 

 

 

ARF Bureau member Mourad Papazian politicizes the Armenian Genocide

There surely is much more in upholding the Armenian Genocide than pursuing in the Diaspora its recognition by states.  Armenians in the diaspora cannot possibly detract from the voting citizens of Armenia the central legacy of the Armenian Genocide, to uphold and perpetuate Armenia and the Armenian culture. For lack of a better word, ARF bureau member Mourad Papazian belittling the Armenian Government and its policies, consequently its Armenian voting citizens, from distant France, is not only uncalled for, but is partisan in its core and anachronistic.

Yesterday, at 10:44 am. I commented to Mourad Papazian's post in the Armenian Weekly. He has titled it, “How can one agree with Nikol Pashinyan?” It’s already 2:50 pm, on the following day - today - as I type this introduction. My comment is awaiting moderation by the editorial staff and, “will be visible after it has been approved." (see below).

More than the twenty-four hours have elapsed and the editorial board of the Armenian weekly has not made its mind to make my comment visible, or not.  It may not. But, even if the editorial board finally makes up its mind and makes my comment visible, not all who may read my blog, subscribe to the Weekly, and thus may not read my comment. I copied my comment - see its screen shot below - and posted. Here it is.   Vaհe H Apelian.

My comment:

“Mourad Papazian is presented to the readers with the commending leadership positions he occupies. But, especially for a man of such claimed stature, I am surprised by his ignorance of the rudimentary of the recent Armenian history. Otherwise, he would have known that the Republic of Armenia, since its inception on May 28, 1918, has not been pursuing the recognition of the Armenian genocide as a state policy, nor laying claims for historical Armenian lands.

Mourad Papazian may be excused for not knowing that the first Republic of Armenia signed the Treaty of Batumi with Turkey, on June 4, 1918, a week after declaring independence, for peace and friendship between the two states, as Turkey recognized the Republic of Armenia (see link 1). He may also not know that a few days later, on June 13, a delegation representing the Republic of Armenia paid an official state visit to Turkey and was hosted accordingly. The delegation stayed there for almost four months and met a list of Turkish dignitaries. The delegation’s first scheduled meeting was, in Avedis Aharonian’s words, “the Grand Vizier Talaat Pasha”, and vouched for the nascent republic’s peace and friendship with Turkey, (see link 2).

Mourad Papazian may be excused for not knowing these and such extraordinary events took place over 100 years ago to safeguard the security, viability and the longevity of the nascent republic. But apparently, even though he is a member of the ARF Bureau, Mourad has no recollection of President Serzh Sargsyan government’s policy, to which the ARF-Armenia was invited and joined in governing Armenia, that pursued a policy of rapprochement with Turkey, the very same policy of not pursuing the recognition of the Armenian Genocide, Mourad Papazian criticizes. Serzh Sargsyan, in his official speeches and statements commemorating the Genocide, often used the Armenian term, Medz Yeghern, Mourad Papazian deliberately avoids. 

One more note, as a matter of principle, Mourad Papazian may speak on behalf of the French Armenians. He is claimed to represent them as co-president of the Coordinating Council of Armenian Organizations of France. But whenever someone has the audacity to speak on behalf of Diaspora, the person simply forfeits credibility or at best comes across attempting to project the person’s views as a Diaspora view. He makes such remarks in his text.

Come April 24, 2027, the PM Nikol Pashinyan and the other principals of his government will pay homage to the memory of the martyred Armenians during the Genocide. Business will be on hold that day in Armenia, as April 24 is a non-working holiday. I, from Diaspora, remain appreciative, if not morally indebted to the citizens of Armenia who from their earnings keep and maintain the Armenian Genocide memorial complex at Tsitsernakaberd for the Armenians world-wide. 

To sum up this lengthy comment and to answer Mourad Papazian rhetorical question for a headline, I continue on supporting the principles of the policies of the government, the citizens of Armenia elected to govern the Republic of Armenia.”  

Link 1: A chronology of Armenia related events between 1915—1923, https://vhapelian.blogspot.com/search?q=Treaty+of+Batumi

Link 2: Republic of Armenia: First official visit to Turkey Report on November 23, 1918, https://vhapelian.blogspot.com/search?q=Grand+Vizier+Talaat+Pasha